Month to Month: The Vinyl Solution
Check out my latest Month to Month column here. In which I argue that labels should offer listeners a choice between vinyl and digital.
A Guy Called Fitzgerald
Check out my latest Month to Month column here. In which I argue that labels should offer listeners a choice between vinyl and digital.
JF wrote:
Great article. Totally on-board and relevant to whats happening at the moment. Congrats!!
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 10:31 am ¶
Ronan wrote:
Thanks J, appreciate that.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 10:32 am ¶
Richard Carnage wrote:
Good stuff there Ronan. One minor qualm… Smith N Hack isn’t really a ‘loose collective’ - it’s just Errorsmith and Soundhack (who also does the Soundstream stuff).
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 2:46 pm ¶
Ronan wrote:
Ah cheers Richard, I know the releases quite well but nothing about the artists.
I went with Discogs which said “Various artists connected to the Hardwax store such as Errorsmith, Soundhack and their guise when working together”. That sort of suggests there are more I guess, but it’s definitely just the two of them?
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 3:49 pm ¶
Richard Carnage wrote:
100% sure mate. Errorsmith tore it up when he played down here last year. If you get a chance to catch him play I’d highly recommend it.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 6:01 pm ¶
todd wrote:
i’d be interested to know what kind of digital sales the labels do. you’re right about it making no sense not to have it available digitally in a business sense, but i do respect that they’re trying to keep the format they’ve grown attached to alive, especially if the sound quality is superior (i wouldn’t know). that said, i can’t imagine vinyl lasting much longer after the day that digital exceeds it’s quality.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 6:18 pm ¶
mind at large wrote:
ronan, i almost always agree with you, but i’ll have to be honest when i say that something about digital upsets me. i don’t feel like perlon are excluding anyone, but then again i’m a bit of a fetishist. i rarely even play my perlon records out, but oh how i covet those beautiful sleeves. i don’t think digital is going to destroy vinyl by no means (when was the phonograph invented? and what are we arguing about now? that’s a long life.) but that interview with richie in mixmag back in november really upset me…. i feel as though the technology that brings you and i together is seperating us from the people around us everyday.
as you can see this discussion has deep philosophical implications for me and my coping method is to be an all-vinyl despot. i can’t find any arpiar 12s anywhere and that only makes me want them more.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 6:27 pm ¶
Ronan wrote:
I guess all I would say is that maybe the labels should let fans make those choices…I mean, would it damage your relationship with your 12s and stuff if Perlon did digital?
I guess what I feel is that it’s brilliant music, and it should be out there in as many formats as possible.
@Todd: I agree they just want vinyl to survive, but I guess the point I argue is that it’s by no means clear that not doing digital is helping vinyl.
I see no reason why you can’t sell both and I don’t think offering both means halving your sales necessarily. Some potential fans may never buy or find your stuff on vinyl and others may never buy or find it on digital.
So while the two markets overlap it’s a Venn Diagram as I imagine it.
One label owner I spoke to even suggested having a presence on Beatport is good for vinyl sales too. It’s this sort of unprejudiced thinking that I find really exciting.
I think this is the attitude labels should have.
As I said in the piece, not because they should make as much cash as possible, but because they can reach more decent music lovers who happen to favour another format.
PS: “i feel as though the technology that brings you and i together is seperating us from the people around us everyday.” that’s a really interesting idea which merits discussion on a thread of its own maybe!
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 7:08 pm ¶
b0b wrote:
test
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 7:28 pm ¶
b0b wrote:
I have a problem posting: I want to post an message a certain length but it won’t display, and if If I try again there’s an error telling I already posted it. Any idea Ronan ?
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 7:31 pm ¶
b0b wrote:
AAhhh excellent and well researched article with interesting quotes, that touch a subject that’s bothering me for a while.
Note that I buy exclusively digitally and own no vinyl at all. Yet I listen to electronic music since forever and love it as much as the next vinyl guy reading this blog. I’m very much attached to the (immaterial) music I bought because as I’m quite picky it took me a long time to select and had to commit real money to get it, not because I have a physical object attached to it (vinyl). People often say: mp3 have no value. Of course it doesn’t! they got it all illegally for free on P2P networks (vs making some hard choice and committing money)
Countless times there was a release I would have bought not available digitally because the policy of the label is not to release digitally. This is frustrating because I really like the music , I’d love to support the label and the artists so they can develop, but just can’t. So I just end up getting it on soulseek, hoping the label will change it’s policy some day.
I’d like to say to those label that if your releases are pirated to death because people can’t download it legally, then don’t complain.
To those label who fear that making it available digitally encourage piracy, this is so wrong as someone is going to rip the vinyl and make it available anyway.
Now I hear the wise say: “If you like the music so much then why you just don’t get the vinyl?”. I would reply that for me that in 2008 it feels cumbersome and ankward to deal with vinyl when in the fraction of the volume occupied you can store 10000x as much data. And I don’t care for the packaging, just the music.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 7:37 pm ¶
Scott Ferguson wrote:
Well I can only say these few things…
I ran a solely vinyl label for 6 years and it was great! Now as much as I was reluctant, I am digital only. I must say that even if “that one asshole pays whatever dollars it costs and burns it for twenty of his or her friends,” I am happy 20 more people hear what I’m doing. The positive things I think I’m seeing is that more of the world are potential fans via digital. Also much less toxic materials for the Earth (I hope anyway) and I make more money. I was putting up 3000 usd to sell 1500 copies of vinyl breaking even just to release another record. This was fine years ago, but now with very little capital I can generate hundreds of usd a month selling digital. No printing, no stamping, doing self mastering, free advertising via myspace, blogs, internet radio, etc… I spent 1000s of usd advertising in industry magazines with really not much of a return. Vinyl is a true love of mine but now I am embracing the future. When I Deejay in Europe I use Traktor Scratch. I have to carry my MacBook Pro, a small usb hard drive and 2 records to play endless hours of music span-ding all genres. Best of all my beautiful vinyl remains safely at home. I really am enjoying digital. Some say digital does not sound as good as analogue and this is true but, someone please tell me how many dancers actually care and how many clubs are setup to hear the difference? After all its about music and emotions isn’t it? Digital sound will get better.
Posted 19 Feb 2008 at 9:46 pm ¶
Ronan wrote:
@b0b, there you are, the spam filter got your post for some reason, sorry about that. I reposted it now. you sum up pretty much exactly how I feel on this.
“I’d like to say to those label that if your releases are pirated to death because people can’t download it legally, then don’t complain.”
I agree. I mean, obviously it’s bullshit for people to download reams and reams of music illegally, but labels shouldn’t let themselves be undercut by the illegal activity. Similarly if you don’t offer digital sales then don’t start complaining that you’re neglected or ignored.
Posted 20 Feb 2008 at 12:06 am ¶
JF wrote:
Scott Ferguson’s point is beautifully summed up in my opinion. Even more glad I bought the Walden Ponds EP now. Great stuff.
Posted 20 Feb 2008 at 8:29 am ¶
mllt wrote:
Nicely written. It’s about time someone stops looking just at vinyl vs. mp3 and start looking at the actual means of production/distribution that supports it. I’m amazed at how people can ignore the fact that beatport and Juno etc. are controlling so much of all the music sold online, since, y’know they’re not exactly hosting it for free.
Posted 21 Feb 2008 at 2:38 am ¶
todd wrote:
boosting vinyl sales by not doing digital, balderdash !! i try to buy as much music as i can afford (digitally), if those labels don’t want to offer mp3’s than i certainly won’t feel bad listening to ripped vinyl versions. i suppose it’s possible that some of the vinyl-exclusive labels just haven’t gotten around to digital releases, i mean how many employees does Sei Es Drum have ?
overall i really feel that vinyl survives because of it’s better quality, i don’t imagine 20 years from now all us mp3′ers holding onto our format against brain-downloaders, so, may the best format win.
p.s. “i feel as though the technology that brings you and i together is seperating us from the people around us everyday”
in my case that’s not such a bad thing.
Posted 21 Feb 2008 at 5:44 am ¶
Ronan wrote:
Yeah Eddie, I mean, just because Juno or whoever sells vinyl doesn’t make them Robin Hood or something in this situation. People consistently forget to mention them when they talk about the death of the local record store.
Posted 21 Feb 2008 at 9:34 am ¶
HRSN wrote:
interesting read Ronan, if i want a release (OSLO/MOJUBA especially) and it is vinyl only i will simply buy the vinyl and record it onto my macbook (i use serato) i dont mind paying more because im going to play the record in the clubs and add to my record collection
i think what it comes down to is everyone supporting it, a lot of people complain but more often than not they are part of the problem
i will always buy vinyl, old and new i spend FAR too much money on discogs!!!
Posted 21 Feb 2008 at 10:45 pm ¶
doru wrote:
Aha. Finnaly, the sensible hybrid distribution model „creeps” it’s way in the headlines. Great article. 100% behind your arguments. Indeed this looks like the best case scenario.
However, the only problem and/or solution with this debate is that both sides are right (in a way):
selling music looks a lot like making it.
You have the purists in that corner and the digital kids in the other one.
You can’t have great music without the purists (the originators, the elevators, the innovators). Just as you can’t have great leaps forward without the kids who just don’t give a shit.
generation clash? human nature?
want to bet that we’ll be in the same place years from now when we’ll debate vinyl & digital vs. direct brain song implants (or the next big thing)?!
You, Ronan, play the rational pacifier who urges all the players to get along for the benefit of every party involved and the greater good of the movement. And you are right.
I say: precisely this constant and perpetual battle and division( between formats, people, my money vs. no money and so on) gives to techno it’s ultimate strenght. It’s source of creativity.
Beat matching life!
So cheer up! it’s a feature not a bug
You wouldn’t want to live in a world where everybody makes the same distribution choices and Carl Craig accepts mp3s. And no, we can’t all get along. And it may be small but it’s alive and it’s still ours. Just look at the size and number of all these comments ?
So to end with a quote from a famous t-shirt: „Sorry Britney, I love techno!”
Posted 22 Feb 2008 at 12:10 am ¶
Ronan wrote:
Interesting ideas Doru…I have to say though I think it’s the lack of popularity that gives techno its strength, the fact that it can’t really be sold in high quantities or doesn’t fit the usual modes of sale yet has a certain populist appeal.
I don’t think a more unified world of formats would destroy that either!
BTW that sounds like a good t-shirt
Posted 22 Feb 2008 at 12:20 am ¶
James wrote:
Terrific article! You did an excellent job of advancing the debate beyond the usual format wars.
I love vinyl & feel conflicted every time I want to go record/CD/mp3. All three options have their appeal. Nonetheless, it still amazes me that a genre so married to (and even named after) technology, there should be such handwringing about digital media…
Posted 22 Feb 2008 at 8:09 pm ¶
Scott Ferguson wrote:
Well put James. I must say that a lot of the Detroit producers who always consider themselves creating the future sound of music are very reluctant to move into the future themselves. It seems slightly hypocritical. After all, I guess America is the land of hypocrisy:)
Posted 24 Feb 2008 at 10:59 pm ¶
Sotek wrote:
“After all, I guess America is the land of hypocrisy:)”
Well put Scott
Posted 27 Feb 2008 at 8:49 am ¶
Scott Ferguson wrote:
Hey JF. Thank you very much for supporting my music…In all formats!
Posted 04 Mar 2008 at 9:56 am ¶
Scott Ferguson wrote:
Thanks Sotek…It is true, isn’t it:)
(sorry 4 the double post)
Posted 04 Mar 2008 at 9:58 am ¶